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Re: (ITS#7698) Multiple Paged search requests on one connection fail
by michael＠stroeder.com 17 Sep '13

17 Sep '13

This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms070508090701020005010904 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable john.unsworth(a)cp.net wrote: > AFAIK it is not the standard LDAP changelog - let me know if I'm wrong.= We > don't want to write specific code for each LDAP server that doesn't con= form > to the LDAP (draft I know) standard. I presume you're referring to [1] as "the standard LDAP changelog". Note that this is an expired informational Internet draft and not a propo= sed standard. Ciao, Michael. [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-good-ldap-changelog-04 --------------ms070508090701020005010904 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIFfzCC BXswggNjoAMCAQICAwxOfTANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADB5MRAwDgYDVQQKEwdSb290IENBMR4w HAYDVQQLExVodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNhY2VydC5vcmcxIjAgBgNVBAMTGUNBIENlcnQgU2lnbmlu ZyBBdXRob3JpdHkxITAfBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWEnN1cHBvcnRAY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZzAeFw0xMjEw MDIyMDE3MDlaFw0xNDEwMDIyMDE3MDlaMD8xGDAWBgNVBAMUD01pY2hhZWwgU3Ry9mRlcjEj MCEGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYUbWljaGFlbEBzdHJvZWRlci5jb20wggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUA A4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQDo2SKth5GhtaDrCyfGtyUG+/hAAa/J52L0NFN4SSRvTtdGf9HfWwwd NCtgae0TVGWk2lKDbXA9d5vmyIiRhuwxd90H6FLErhRBeB9G67qtw87E8WUoXt2DwPQEUTWV hqHpPadlmgFw3+i3TGQQTe3O3W9MMMd4GJNhObem2VGRuCD37OXnzBksTcq0FPJgcWAhe3d/ 0ItOkNWBqgq8Mf3p7WFBhaQ0a27BC/mKtH8fI3kPcS305imPRja69Msq3EwUZBc9ToVp6FRQ NYKjfOBybDUzVkmRZl3H8xutQP2w8Zxb8m5f7Q1BfLLrIFScfYvIDgOERxTCd4lab8+/09XH AgMBAAGjggFEMIIBQDAMBgNVHRMBAf8EAjAAMFYGCWCGSAGG+EIBDQRJFkdUbyBnZXQgeW91 ciBvd24gY2VydGlmaWNhdGUgZm9yIEZSRUUgaGVhZCBvdmVyIHRvIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuQ0Fj ZXJ0Lm9yZzAOBgNVHQ8BAf8EBAMCA6gwQAYDVR0lBDkwNwYIKwYBBQUHAwQGCCsGAQUFBwMC BgorBgEEAYI3CgMEBgorBgEEAYI3CgMDBglghkgBhvhCBAEwMgYIKwYBBQUHAQEEJjAkMCIG CCsGAQUFBzABhhZodHRwOi8vb2NzcC5jYWNlcnQub3JnMDEGA1UdHwQqMCgwJqAkoCKGIGh0 dHA6Ly9jcmwuY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZy9yZXZva2UuY3JsMB8GA1UdEQQYMBaBFG1pY2hhZWxAc3Ry b2VkZXIuY29tMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4ICAQC9ouXq3p/bDWMM4tBKgD3tl4HY5H0eECl8 q9/nqk0UL6YeWkrCiQdrDtNPW7DcGqNYtzdgtzmyTr1GhiAX+igrOjdk/ge5NRcQOpONK/4b zrmpQEcIUyxSSDKLWh211/kcFfxxLEiJ5teF4GL8Fc1qbrLP4+DCvJXWfYaaR5NLjZMqm2VP yKTv3qpXWnGohiRkGTwS/11QM2XCfIGdRsQT9a8mO4m2fn2tGPp2TEIoCLrDDrbGVeDWaOWB OIeTrp4wa3Q4OI6yCptJhEqKvjhV96IBRYgM76nTBqsqnDzwxExAyhhWiUS5DunRHOr/+NyF pUpD4883RBLO0g9kUEGOhtZNF1u+8zEL0YgMGvifAom9JEklLOXZuqj0MThypKs/3d/OyOQb 4gURnu6oZwcKZ7LskytWnlRKUxF6o0A8grtmyKkqe14TS7cQbg0NTaIYXPkHR+dfFmb3uEqn BBjvpJXFcEtWI2lQXC/ET+au991pK797ExBOmpQwjIn3SjiW80vw/UoL6DMvqY/6JhVhyNTP MJ2W5AX5kc27DIbVtVGZs8J4AYhuNALJUq9N9Ka7rPRj3RcYDrfehDLOkM5iMnarpmtuOpLK d1SvZhqj/0N/JWGIDpPSTkTFOPP6ZN9I9Rqyf+9NGqb2sjo4DkIiZcHxt735/GJLwus5KLBl 2DGCA6EwggOdAgEBMIGAMHkxEDAOBgNVBAoTB1Jvb3QgQ0ExHjAcBgNVBAsTFWh0dHA6Ly93 d3cuY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZzEiMCAGA1UEAxMZQ0EgQ2VydCBTaWduaW5nIEF1dGhvcml0eTEhMB8G CSqGSIb3DQEJARYSc3VwcG9ydEBjYWNlcnQub3JnAgMMTn0wCQYFKw4DAhoFAKCCAfUwGAYJ KoZIhvcNAQkDMQsGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAcBgkqhkiG9w0BCQUxDxcNMTMwOTE3MjA0MjUzWjAj BgkqhkiG9w0BCQQxFgQUEAusugl++MhH733peKnCHcb/Nw4wbAYJKoZIhvcNAQkPMV8wXTAL BglghkgBZQMEASowCwYJYIZIAWUDBAECMAoGCCqGSIb3DQMHMA4GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgIAgDAN BggqhkiG9w0DAgIBQDAHBgUrDgMCBzANBggqhkiG9w0DAgIBKDCBkQYJKwYBBAGCNxAEMYGD MIGAMHkxEDAOBgNVBAoTB1Jvb3QgQ0ExHjAcBgNVBAsTFWh0dHA6Ly93d3cuY2FjZXJ0Lm9y ZzEiMCAGA1UEAxMZQ0EgQ2VydCBTaWduaW5nIEF1dGhvcml0eTEhMB8GCSqGSIb3DQEJARYS c3VwcG9ydEBjYWNlcnQub3JnAgMMTn0wgZMGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMYGDoIGAMHkxEDAOBgNV BAoTB1Jvb3QgQ0ExHjAcBgNVBAsTFWh0dHA6Ly93d3cuY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZzEiMCAGA1UEAxMZ Q0EgQ2VydCBTaWduaW5nIEF1dGhvcml0eTEhMB8GCSqGSIb3DQEJARYSc3VwcG9ydEBjYWNl cnQub3JnAgMMTn0wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEAq+P94yAbnCHzS4eSmCAnZ9HB/kitBw++ I3EWNu3OZ+bYst3YHAtwjDLZyHZOy7YreSiznixIR73sM6ZFZji1L11chKnoQyhnb48bOFHC Mc3tY7iR15KZc2kzahw33XfvHv4XKuXNKdFqBbqMJdgSoZ6b9WCKp3vJhi0CexuH64WeJ+iX ZUbOAhkZ9AiSLaK9Ra2wHksEXJvmzexPCM8LnEGbUFbUtf5sVp8lJw/gq4FSSdcQt1GHyw3z AioPL4aqaFm7h6/if7qR0AAMV/W4ssrJvnv7gSNyZWS/FeKn16TU61hZZ9Z5ZenKUnarTYuj tgXfQHxjsQlS3f0R78wU9gAAAAAAAA== --------------ms070508090701020005010904--

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Re: (ITS#7698) Multiple Paged search requests on one connection fail
by michael＠stroeder.com 17 Sep '13

17 Sep '13

This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms080203050507020908040705 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John Unsworth wrote: > LDAP servers we connect to typically contain > thousands if not millions of entries. Reading the lot without paging - > although we can do it - is very inefficient both in terms of LDAP resou= rces > and application resources. I really wonder why that is inefficient. I'm also developing custom sync software for large data sets. If stream processing is possible you don't = need much resources. If stream processing is not possible paging does not help= either. > In the case of OpenLDAP there is no LDAP changelog and so the only way = we > have of discovering changes is to read the whole directory and compare = with > what was read last time. Use slapo-accesslog which is more powerful than the old changelog data an= yway. Ciao, Michael. --------------ms080203050507020908040705 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIFfzCC BXswggNjoAMCAQICAwxOfTANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADB5MRAwDgYDVQQKEwdSb290IENBMR4w HAYDVQQLExVodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNhY2VydC5vcmcxIjAgBgNVBAMTGUNBIENlcnQgU2lnbmlu ZyBBdXRob3JpdHkxITAfBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWEnN1cHBvcnRAY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZzAeFw0xMjEw MDIyMDE3MDlaFw0xNDEwMDIyMDE3MDlaMD8xGDAWBgNVBAMUD01pY2hhZWwgU3Ry9mRlcjEj MCEGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYUbWljaGFlbEBzdHJvZWRlci5jb20wggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUA A4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQDo2SKth5GhtaDrCyfGtyUG+/hAAa/J52L0NFN4SSRvTtdGf9HfWwwd NCtgae0TVGWk2lKDbXA9d5vmyIiRhuwxd90H6FLErhRBeB9G67qtw87E8WUoXt2DwPQEUTWV hqHpPadlmgFw3+i3TGQQTe3O3W9MMMd4GJNhObem2VGRuCD37OXnzBksTcq0FPJgcWAhe3d/ 0ItOkNWBqgq8Mf3p7WFBhaQ0a27BC/mKtH8fI3kPcS305imPRja69Msq3EwUZBc9ToVp6FRQ NYKjfOBybDUzVkmRZl3H8xutQP2w8Zxb8m5f7Q1BfLLrIFScfYvIDgOERxTCd4lab8+/09XH AgMBAAGjggFEMIIBQDAMBgNVHRMBAf8EAjAAMFYGCWCGSAGG+EIBDQRJFkdUbyBnZXQgeW91 ciBvd24gY2VydGlmaWNhdGUgZm9yIEZSRUUgaGVhZCBvdmVyIHRvIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuQ0Fj ZXJ0Lm9yZzAOBgNVHQ8BAf8EBAMCA6gwQAYDVR0lBDkwNwYIKwYBBQUHAwQGCCsGAQUFBwMC BgorBgEEAYI3CgMEBgorBgEEAYI3CgMDBglghkgBhvhCBAEwMgYIKwYBBQUHAQEEJjAkMCIG CCsGAQUFBzABhhZodHRwOi8vb2NzcC5jYWNlcnQub3JnMDEGA1UdHwQqMCgwJqAkoCKGIGh0 dHA6Ly9jcmwuY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZy9yZXZva2UuY3JsMB8GA1UdEQQYMBaBFG1pY2hhZWxAc3Ry b2VkZXIuY29tMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4ICAQC9ouXq3p/bDWMM4tBKgD3tl4HY5H0eECl8 q9/nqk0UL6YeWkrCiQdrDtNPW7DcGqNYtzdgtzmyTr1GhiAX+igrOjdk/ge5NRcQOpONK/4b zrmpQEcIUyxSSDKLWh211/kcFfxxLEiJ5teF4GL8Fc1qbrLP4+DCvJXWfYaaR5NLjZMqm2VP yKTv3qpXWnGohiRkGTwS/11QM2XCfIGdRsQT9a8mO4m2fn2tGPp2TEIoCLrDDrbGVeDWaOWB OIeTrp4wa3Q4OI6yCptJhEqKvjhV96IBRYgM76nTBqsqnDzwxExAyhhWiUS5DunRHOr/+NyF pUpD4883RBLO0g9kUEGOhtZNF1u+8zEL0YgMGvifAom9JEklLOXZuqj0MThypKs/3d/OyOQb 4gURnu6oZwcKZ7LskytWnlRKUxF6o0A8grtmyKkqe14TS7cQbg0NTaIYXPkHR+dfFmb3uEqn BBjvpJXFcEtWI2lQXC/ET+au991pK797ExBOmpQwjIn3SjiW80vw/UoL6DMvqY/6JhVhyNTP MJ2W5AX5kc27DIbVtVGZs8J4AYhuNALJUq9N9Ka7rPRj3RcYDrfehDLOkM5iMnarpmtuOpLK d1SvZhqj/0N/JWGIDpPSTkTFOPP6ZN9I9Rqyf+9NGqb2sjo4DkIiZcHxt735/GJLwus5KLBl 2DGCA6EwggOdAgEBMIGAMHkxEDAOBgNVBAoTB1Jvb3QgQ0ExHjAcBgNVBAsTFWh0dHA6Ly93 d3cuY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZzEiMCAGA1UEAxMZQ0EgQ2VydCBTaWduaW5nIEF1dGhvcml0eTEhMB8G CSqGSIb3DQEJARYSc3VwcG9ydEBjYWNlcnQub3JnAgMMTn0wCQYFKw4DAhoFAKCCAfUwGAYJ KoZIhvcNAQkDMQsGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAcBgkqhkiG9w0BCQUxDxcNMTMwOTE3MjAzNzMzWjAj BgkqhkiG9w0BCQQxFgQUTyl3bIAh895kSiYoIfJPfdrRbiowbAYJKoZIhvcNAQkPMV8wXTAL BglghkgBZQMEASowCwYJYIZIAWUDBAECMAoGCCqGSIb3DQMHMA4GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgIAgDAN BggqhkiG9w0DAgIBQDAHBgUrDgMCBzANBggqhkiG9w0DAgIBKDCBkQYJKwYBBAGCNxAEMYGD MIGAMHkxEDAOBgNVBAoTB1Jvb3QgQ0ExHjAcBgNVBAsTFWh0dHA6Ly93d3cuY2FjZXJ0Lm9y ZzEiMCAGA1UEAxMZQ0EgQ2VydCBTaWduaW5nIEF1dGhvcml0eTEhMB8GCSqGSIb3DQEJARYS c3VwcG9ydEBjYWNlcnQub3JnAgMMTn0wgZMGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMYGDoIGAMHkxEDAOBgNV BAoTB1Jvb3QgQ0ExHjAcBgNVBAsTFWh0dHA6Ly93d3cuY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZzEiMCAGA1UEAxMZ Q0EgQ2VydCBTaWduaW5nIEF1dGhvcml0eTEhMB8GCSqGSIb3DQEJARYSc3VwcG9ydEBjYWNl cnQub3JnAgMMTn0wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEAm42W7q1EMPcgUQ8jMD560Ml8344oCv8m JeaMH+6k1GjWDfqQkX3qPj2gGbqw27JfHs7lEjMqedyXdFcK0LokVzCsRxbjTwseaq4JX0gl llgHDa/fwF1Et+dcCMFaMMeyo+zeNUnLq46iVhrROtGov67iYKqO7/y0O+YSdVR7z9G2amby nqlxCZhK9gr1IlGHe3hXkWiTIR8ud/6jVLYGhiKS2n8ctpltD2EoJslJFA1Vy7FOPF4ecoN7 IbB6egUHRjsNPp1BO294jPnlLLkLeD/CXrCl7RAEhpVDPeY51nnI8p3isUgqcmO0LR6+f+/j nyHAskCnziCmuzD93wWv5gAAAAAAAA== --------------ms080203050507020908040705--

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Re: (ITS#7698) Multiple Paged search requests on one connection fail
by hyc＠symas.com 17 Sep '13

17 Sep '13

quanah(a)zimbra.com wrote: > --On Tuesday, September 17, 2013 7:52 PM +0000 john.unsworth(a)cp.net wrote: > >> AFAIK it is not the standard LDAP changelog - let me know if I'm wrong. We >> don't want to write specific code for each LDAP server that doesn't >> conform to the LDAP (draft I know) standard. > > Please fix your client to stop top-posting. > > With openldap, you have two choices. I don't know which draft you are > referring to, so I can't say if either conforms with what the other > directory servers do. > > slapo-auditlog > slapo-accesslog accesslog conforms to this draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chu-ldap-logschema-00 -- -- Howard Chu CTO, Symas Corp. http://www.symas.com Director, Highland Sun http://highlandsun.com/hyc/ Chief Architect, OpenLDAP http://www.openldap.org/project/

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Re: (ITS#7698) Multiple Paged search requests on one connection fail
by hyc＠symas.com 17 Sep '13

17 Sep '13

John Unsworth wrote: >>> There are no other directory servers in existence that can scale to the > level that OpenLDAP does and perform well at that scale. > > How do you justify/prove that statement? Our (Symas) customers tell us which directory server they're migrating from when they come to us. We perform benchmarks periodically as well. Nothing else comes close. Come to LDAPCon this year, we'll be presenting our latest benchmark results then. > -----Original Message----- > From: Howard Chu [mailto:hyc@symas.com] > Sent: 17 September 2013 20:52 > To: john.unsworth(a)cp.net; openldap-its(a)openldap.org > Subject: Re: (ITS#7698) Multiple Paged search requests on one connection > fail > > john.unsworth(a)cp.net wrote: >> Products other than browsers use LDAP servers. Our product is a meta >> directory that watches for changes on multiple data sources (LDAP, >> Databases, SAP, ...) and reconciles any changes across the complete >> set of sources according to data filtering and transformation rules. >> However sometimes it is necessary to read the whole data set - for >> example when a new data server is added, or when changes may have been >> missed for any reason, or when an 'audit' type operation is required >> to ensure that all data sources are consistent. LDAP servers we >> connect to typically contain thousands if not millions of entries. > > OpenLDAP is regularly used in production by large telcos with billions of > entries. There are no other directory servers in existence that can scale to > the level that OpenLDAP does and perform well at that scale. > >> Reading the lot without paging - >> although we can do it - is very inefficient both in terms of LDAP >> resources and application resources. > > That's utter nonsense. The amount of data is the same no matter how many > pieces you slice it into. It is *more* inefficient to slice it into multiple > requests. > >> The directory is read using multiple parallel paged searches across >> different branches on a single connection. Every directory we have >> used except OpenLDAP can manage this effectively. > >> In the case of OpenLDAP there is no LDAP changelog and so the only way >> we have of discovering changes is to read the whole directory and >> compare with what was read last time. > > So you're saying you're connecting to OpenLDAP servers from version 2.1 or > older, from before syncrepl or the accesslog or changelog overlays existed. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Michael Ströder [mailto:michael@stroeder.com] >> Sent: 17 September 2013 20:20 >> To: john.unsworth(a)cp.net; openldap-its(a)openldap.org >> Subject: Re: (ITS#7698) Multiple Paged search requests on one >> connection fail >> >> john.unsworth(a)cp.net wrote: >>> I would also be interested to understand why " paged results is >>> inherently flawed". >> >> Although being the author of an interactive LDAP UI client I still >> wonder why people want paged results (or tree browsing). >> >> If you have so many results you should narrow the search criteria. >> Browsing/paging is pretty inefficient working style. >> >> Ciao, Michael. >> >> >> >> >> > > -- -- Howard Chu CTO, Symas Corp. http://www.symas.com Director, Highland Sun http://highlandsun.com/hyc/ Chief Architect, OpenLDAP http://www.openldap.org/project/

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RE: (ITS#7698) Multiple Paged search requests on one connection fail
by quanah＠zimbra.com 17 Sep '13

17 Sep '13

--On Tuesday, September 17, 2013 7:52 PM +0000 john.unsworth(a)cp.net wrote: > AFAIK it is not the standard LDAP changelog - let me know if I'm wrong. We > don't want to write specific code for each LDAP server that doesn't > conform to the LDAP (draft I know) standard. Please fix your client to stop top-posting. With openldap, you have two choices. I don't know which draft you are referring to, so I can't say if either conforms with what the other directory servers do. slapo-auditlog slapo-accesslog Pick your path. --Quanah -- Quanah Gibson-Mount Lead Engineer Zimbra Software, LLC -------------------- Zimbra :: the leader in open source messaging and collaboration

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RE: (ITS#7698) Multiple Paged search requests on one connection fail
by john.unsworth＠cp.net 17 Sep '13

17 Sep '13

>> There are no other directory servers in existence that can scale to the level that OpenLDAP does and perform well at that scale. How do you justify/prove that statement? -----Original Message----- From: Howard Chu [mailto:hyc@symas.com] Sent: 17 September 2013 20:52 To: john.unsworth(a)cp.net; openldap-its(a)openldap.org Subject: Re: (ITS#7698) Multiple Paged search requests on one connection fail john.unsworth(a)cp.net wrote: > Products other than browsers use LDAP servers. Our product is a meta > directory that watches for changes on multiple data sources (LDAP, > Databases, SAP, ...) and reconciles any changes across the complete > set of sources according to data filtering and transformation rules. > However sometimes it is necessary to read the whole data set - for > example when a new data server is added, or when changes may have been > missed for any reason, or when an 'audit' type operation is required > to ensure that all data sources are consistent. LDAP servers we > connect to typically contain thousands if not millions of entries. OpenLDAP is regularly used in production by large telcos with billions of entries. There are no other directory servers in existence that can scale to the level that OpenLDAP does and perform well at that scale. > Reading the lot without paging - > although we can do it - is very inefficient both in terms of LDAP > resources and application resources. That's utter nonsense. The amount of data is the same no matter how many pieces you slice it into. It is *more* inefficient to slice it into multiple requests. > The directory is read using multiple parallel paged searches across > different branches on a single connection. Every directory we have > used except OpenLDAP can manage this effectively. > In the case of OpenLDAP there is no LDAP changelog and so the only way > we have of discovering changes is to read the whole directory and > compare with what was read last time. So you're saying you're connecting to OpenLDAP servers from version 2.1 or older, from before syncrepl or the accesslog or changelog overlays existed. > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Ströder [mailto:michael@stroeder.com] > Sent: 17 September 2013 20:20 > To: john.unsworth(a)cp.net; openldap-its(a)openldap.org > Subject: Re: (ITS#7698) Multiple Paged search requests on one > connection fail > > john.unsworth(a)cp.net wrote: >> I would also be interested to understand why " paged results is >> inherently flawed". > > Although being the author of an interactive LDAP UI client I still > wonder why people want paged results (or tree browsing). > > If you have so many results you should narrow the search criteria. > Browsing/paging is pretty inefficient working style. > > Ciao, Michael. > > > > > -- -- Howard Chu CTO, Symas Corp. http://www.symas.com Director, Highland Sun http://highlandsun.com/hyc/ Chief Architect, OpenLDAP http://www.openldap.org/project/

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RE: (ITS#7698) Multiple Paged search requests on one connection fail
by john.unsworth＠cp.net 17 Sep '13

17 Sep '13

AFAIK it is not the standard LDAP changelog - let me know if I'm wrong. We don't want to write specific code for each LDAP server that doesn't conform to the LDAP (draft I know) standard. -----Original Message----- From: Quanah Gibson-Mount [mailto:quanah@zimbra.com] Sent: 17 September 2013 20:49 To: john.unsworth(a)cp.net; openldap-its(a)openldap.org Subject: RE: (ITS#7698) Multiple Paged search requests on one connection fail --On Tuesday, September 17, 2013 7:34 PM +0000 john.unsworth(a)cp.net wrote: > In the case of OpenLDAP there is no LDAP changelog and so the only way > we have of discovering changes is to read the whole directory and > compare with what was read last time. If you think that, then apparently you haven't spent time reading the documentation. OpenLDAP has had a changelog since at least OpenLDAP 2.3, if you enable it. I use it for auditing changes all the time. --Quanah -- Quanah Gibson-Mount Lead Engineer Zimbra Software, LLC -------------------- Zimbra :: the leader in open source messaging and collaboration

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Re: (ITS#7698) Multiple Paged search requests on one connection fail
by hyc＠symas.com 17 Sep '13

17 Sep '13

john.unsworth(a)cp.net wrote: > Products other than browsers use LDAP servers. Our product is a meta > directory that watches for changes on multiple data sources (LDAP, > Databases, SAP, ...) and reconciles any changes across the complete set of > sources according to data filtering and transformation rules. However > sometimes it is necessary to read the whole data set - for example when a > new data server is added, or when changes may have been missed for any > reason, or when an 'audit' type operation is required to ensure that all > data sources are consistent. LDAP servers we connect to typically contain > thousands if not millions of entries. OpenLDAP is regularly used in production by large telcos with billions of entries. There are no other directory servers in existence that can scale to the level that OpenLDAP does and perform well at that scale. > Reading the lot without paging - > although we can do it - is very inefficient both in terms of LDAP resources > and application resources. That's utter nonsense. The amount of data is the same no matter how many pieces you slice it into. It is *more* inefficient to slice it into multiple requests. > The directory is read using multiple parallel > paged searches across different branches on a single connection. Every > directory we have used except OpenLDAP can manage this effectively. > In the case of OpenLDAP there is no LDAP changelog and so the only way we > have of discovering changes is to read the whole directory and compare with > what was read last time. So you're saying you're connecting to OpenLDAP servers from version 2.1 or older, from before syncrepl or the accesslog or changelog overlays existed. > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Ströder [mailto:michael@stroeder.com] > Sent: 17 September 2013 20:20 > To: john.unsworth(a)cp.net; openldap-its(a)openldap.org > Subject: Re: (ITS#7698) Multiple Paged search requests on one connection > fail > > john.unsworth(a)cp.net wrote: >> I would also be interested to understand why " paged results is inherently >> flawed". > > Although being the author of an interactive LDAP UI client I still wonder > why > people want paged results (or tree browsing). > > If you have so many results you should narrow the search criteria. > Browsing/paging is pretty inefficient working style. > > Ciao, Michael. > > > > > -- -- Howard Chu CTO, Symas Corp. http://www.symas.com Director, Highland Sun http://highlandsun.com/hyc/ Chief Architect, OpenLDAP http://www.openldap.org/project/

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RE: (ITS#7698) Multiple Paged search requests on one connection fail
by quanah＠zimbra.com 17 Sep '13

17 Sep '13

--On Tuesday, September 17, 2013 7:34 PM +0000 john.unsworth(a)cp.net wrote: > In the case of OpenLDAP there is no LDAP changelog and so the only way we > have of discovering changes is to read the whole directory and compare > with what was read last time. If you think that, then apparently you haven't spent time reading the documentation. OpenLDAP has had a changelog since at least OpenLDAP 2.3, if you enable it. I use it for auditing changes all the time. --Quanah -- Quanah Gibson-Mount Lead Engineer Zimbra Software, LLC -------------------- Zimbra :: the leader in open source messaging and collaboration

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RE: (ITS#7698) Multiple Paged search requests on one connection fail
by john.unsworth＠cp.net 17 Sep '13

17 Sep '13

Products other than browsers use LDAP servers. Our product is a meta directory that watches for changes on multiple data sources (LDAP, Databases, SAP, ...) and reconciles any changes across the complete set of sources according to data filtering and transformation rules. However sometimes it is necessary to read the whole data set - for example when a new data server is added, or when changes may have been missed for any reason, or when an 'audit' type operation is required to ensure that all data sources are consistent. LDAP servers we connect to typically contain thousands if not millions of entries. Reading the lot without paging - although we can do it - is very inefficient both in terms of LDAP resources and application resources. The directory is read using multiple parallel paged searches across different branches on a single connection. Every directory we have used except OpenLDAP can manage this effectively. In the case of OpenLDAP there is no LDAP changelog and so the only way we have of discovering changes is to read the whole directory and compare with what was read last time. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Ströder [mailto:michael@stroeder.com] Sent: 17 September 2013 20:20 To: john.unsworth(a)cp.net; openldap-its(a)openldap.org Subject: Re: (ITS#7698) Multiple Paged search requests on one connection fail john.unsworth(a)cp.net wrote: > I would also be interested to understand why " paged results is inherently > flawed". Although being the author of an interactive LDAP UI client I still wonder why people want paged results (or tree browsing). If you have so many results you should narrow the search criteria. Browsing/paging is pretty inefficient working style. Ciao, Michael.

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